jane_elliot ([info]jane_elliot) wrote in [info]epic_rants,

Whumpage Meta

I've been thinking a lot lately about the phenomena of character whumpage, as you can probably tell from the frequent posts re: the Magnificent Seven.  Yesterday I read a comment that suddenly made a lot of things clear for me.

First, I want to clarify the definition of 'whump' for this particularly post: 'whump' is when a character (though no fault of his own, for he is a veritable saint) is treated in a shabby manner by his mistrustful peers until he goes through a grueling, near-fatal ordeal (during which he knows his faithless friends will never go to any effort to safe him, because they just don't care enough) and thus gains the esteem and trust of his so-called friends who are horrified and contrite at their previous behavior.  This is very popular in a lot of fandoms, but especially in the Magnificent Seven fandom (poor, put-upon Ezra).

I want to add that not all hurt/comfort fic qualifies as whump by the above definition: Queens of the Wild Frontier is not whump, though there is definitely a focus on hurt (Ezra is still the punching bag), because the story is about Ezra and Buck being in a bad situation and having to get out of it.  Neither one is an outcast among his peers and both are capable, fully-developed characters.  The Amazon Series, on the other hand, is totally whumpage -- over the course of the first three stories, Ezra is repeatedly beaten, shot multiple times, starved, concussed, abandoned, thrown off a cliff, and set on fire.  During this time, most of the remaining six (but especially Nathan) spend lots of time thinking about how unreliable Ezra is because he keeps not showing up for his patrols.

Needless to say, The Amazon Series is vastly more popular in the fandom than Queens of the Wild Frontier.

So, what is the appeal of whump?  Yesterday I read something on fandomwank that sounds pretty spot-on.  The post was about an author who chose to leave fandom and most of the discussion in the comments were about the nature of her work, much of which involved whumpage.  One commentor said (paraphrased, since I just spent the last 45 minutes going through several hundred comments and can't find the darn thing again):

She, like a lot of fanfic authors, is playing out her teenage suicide fantasy in her fanfic: i.e., My parents/friends/boyfriend is being mean, but I'll be hurt/maimed/killed and then they'll be SOOOO sorry!  That'll show them!

After thinking about that comment for a while, I realised that it is right on the mark.  Most whump fic is just like most teenage suicide/revenge fantasies: emotionally overwrought, featuring a main character who is totally right but terribly misunderstood, and who gains his validation through horrible trauma that makes everyone realize what a wonderful person he is.  Thus a happy ending all around!  Until next time, because these fics are apparently addictive (once you've started showing all of those evil non-Ezra seven how mean they are, it's impossible to stop).

At this point, I'd planned to explain exactly why I don't like this particular form of whumpage, but I figured no one here is interested in reading about my own teenage angst years.  Suffice to say that I personally don't find characters who have no internalized sense of self-worth to be particularly satisfying, and I especially don't like seeing such a person (basically the fanfic version of a puppy) get kicked over and over and over and over again until he's nothing more than a fur sack filled with puppy mush (though, of course he'll survive, because otherwise the characters can't tell him how sorry they are).  Frankly, I don't consider these types of stories to be happy ones -- the only true happy ending when a character is being treated this badly by his 'friends' is for him to leave town and go find some new friends, ones who aren't emotionally (and sometimes physically) abusive.

Of course, I seem to be in the minority on this particular topic.  At least I've learned one thing -- I will be approaching Magnificent Seven fics with *extreme* caution in the future.
Tags: fandom: magnificent seven, general topics, rants by jane

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  • 109 comments

[info]gwendolynflight

September 24 2009, 20:06:37 UTC 2 years ago

Hm, I do have a bit of a kink for characters with low self-esteem, but it has to be a very specific sort. I go for the martyr-hero type, really. Benton Fraser, Harry Potter, John Sheppard, even Chris O'Donnell's character on the new NCIS: LA is modelled on this character type. And in fandom, these characters tend to be seething masses of issues continually deferred in favor of the crisis/apocalypse of the week. I love it! Not sure why. .... Possibly misguided mothering instincts. Hm. But these are characters who have good friends, who know their friends love them, but still feel themselves obligated to go blow themselves up for the greater good. I think most of our society is a little in love with martyrs, though. Look at Jesus! And stuff ... [/blasphemy]

[info]jane_elliot

September 24 2009, 20:13:38 UTC 2 years ago

I like characters with low self-esteem, too, but even (OOC) Blair Sandburg (or slightly less OOC Benton Fraser:) doesn't believe his friends will abandon him when he's kidnapped, so he has at least an iota of self-worth. In a lot of whump fics, the main character actually thinks everyone will be better off if he's killed (more teenage angst).

To me the issue is more of a 'no one loves me, until I'm battered and bruised and then suddenly everyone is soo sorry for how they treated me' one. Sort of like the not-so-good SGA post-Trinity fics, wherein Rodney accepts that he's a worthless piece of shit after Doranda and his team agrees, resulting in Rodney being raped/tortured/abused to make up for the events of the episode. And, of course, when the team finds out, they are soooo sorry.

Honestly, one of the big signs of whumpage seems to be the focus on character remorse at the end, which generally rings false, since these characters clearly are emotionally abusive and will likely to continue to be so since abusers rarely change their ways.

[info]moonpupy

September 24 2009, 20:33:31 UTC 2 years ago

I will be approaching Magnificent Seven fics with *extreme* caution in the future.

Well, duh! Because it's Vin who deserves the most whumpage - him being unedumacated and dyslexic and half (or more) breed, and jest plain dum.

[info]jane_elliot

September 24 2009, 20:37:35 UTC 2 years ago

Heh. The funny thing is, *most* people in the Old West couldn't read. And, honestly, canon!Vin was far more capable in all aspects of practical survival than his literate co-workers. If I were lost in the middle of nowhere, I'd much rather have Vin with me than anyone else (even Nathan, who would probably be the second most useful companion).

[info]sholio

2 years ago

[info]theficklepickle

September 24 2009, 20:38:07 UTC 2 years ago

I think the whole 'misunderstood and maltreated' thing is quite immature actually; as much as a suicide fantasy it's also a teenage revenge fantasy - "When you realise how much I've suffered you'll be sorry you treated me so badly." The point is, in order to make one character suffer heroically, all the rest have to behave totally out of character and indeed not even like real human beings, let alone mature adults. I'm with you; there is no reconciliation with 'friends' who behave like this and you'd never trust them again anyway. (It doesn't stop TV using this plot from time to time though; you show me a hero who hasn't been falsely accused and had all his friends turn against him.)

I don't know the Mag 7 fandom at all and it sounds as if I'm doing the right thing by staying out of it. I'd rather have my characters behaving like adults and dealing with real problems than getting involved in playground level hate games. Unfortunately, people who write this kind of thing will always find a ready market for it; there are a lot of very undiscriminating readers about.

[info]jane_elliot

September 24 2009, 20:44:09 UTC 2 years ago

Excellent point (in fact, I think I'll edit the post to include teenage suicide/revenge fantasy, because it really is a combination of the two).

And I agree with how immature it reads -- by the time all is said and done, why would you *want* to be friends with these jerks?

(Side note: there is some good M7 fic out there, you just have to look really hard for it -- ER is a pretty good resource if you want to give the fandom a try:)

[info]dkwilliams

September 24 2009, 23:39:33 UTC 2 years ago

ST: Voyager had a lot of Paris!whumpage fics, in which everyone ignored how badly he was treated by both the Maquis and Federation crews, in which Chakatoy called him names and constantly put him down for some infraction or another (usually caused by the harassers, like shredding his uniforms just before he has to go on duty). Usually Harry was still his loyal friend but too cowardly to say anything to Janeway, or Paris had bravely insisted that he keep silent so he wouldn't be hurt, too. Usually he'd end up dragged off and beaten to near death, or injured in a shuttle sabotage, or some such thing, and then Janeway and Chakotay would be sorry, and Chakotay would See The Error of His Ways through his spirit guide, and he would gently woo the wary Paris into his bed and his rightful place as Most Important Crew Member. Bonus points if Paris was also raped during the attack and was healed by Chakotay's magical healing cock. (Um, I might have read a couple of these during my consume-everything-Voyager phase...)

[info]dkwilliams

September 24 2009, 23:42:36 UTC 2 years ago

Oh, and yeah - definitely in the "I'll die in a snowdrift while heroically saving orphans with my body heat, and then you'll be sorry!" teen phase. I'm not sure why it has such wide appeal among writers - reading them feels like a train-wreck you can't look away from.

[info]nemesishamartia

September 24 2009, 23:50:51 UTC 2 years ago

I'm gonna come join you in the minority. I don't read Magnificent Seven fic, but it's happened in other fandoms of mine. And EVERY TIME I SEE IT, it's SO OUT OF CHARACTER for *everyone* involved.

Also, I just don't find it particularly satisfying to read teenage angst/revenge fic. It's fine as a fantasy, but it's boring to read in fanfic and shit.

Partly 'cause, y'know, most fandoms don't involve whiny, angsty, boring-as-fuck teenagers.

[info]jane_elliot

September 25 2009, 03:26:12 UTC 2 years ago

Exactly.

[info]sholio

September 25 2009, 00:57:38 UTC 2 years ago

I think of this as "You'll all be sorry!" fic or YABS-fic, and every fandom I've ever been in has had a subset of it, with or without violent maiming -- sometimes the character just gets a chance to humiliate their so-called oppressors in a non-h/c kind of way, or writes bitter entries in their diary about how much everyone hates them. In the fandom I'm currently in (Stargate Atlantis) "whump" seems to be pretty specifically used to denote the hurt side of hurt/comfort -- there's not necessarily a "You'll all be sorry!" aspect to it (though I must admit that fic specifically labeled "whump" often has YABS elements to it *g*), and not all YABS-fic is labeled as whump fic. I absolutely think you're right that YABS-fic is straight-up teenage emo fantasy; it is so, SO very not my cup of tea, but obviously people who enjoy it get pleasure and catharsis out of it. Like you, in fic of this sort I tend to end up wishing the character would just leave town and get away from their abusive so-called "friends".

[info]jane_elliot

September 25 2009, 03:27:36 UTC 2 years ago

What gets me is how popular this type of fic is among *readers* -- I can understand why writers like it, but I just can't understand why folks like reading it. Just not my kink, I guess.

[info]wemblee

2 years ago

[info]sholio

2 years ago

[info]sholio

2 years ago

[info]sholio

2 years ago

[info]duskyfox

2 years ago

[info]penknife

2 years ago

[info]scrollgirl

September 26 2009, 02:29:35 UTC 2 years ago

There are a number of excellent reasons why my foray into M7 fandom was as fleeting as snow in August, but yeah, the whump fic was one of them. In particular:
During this time, most of the remaining six (but especially Nathan) spend lots of time thinking about how unreliable Ezra is because he keeps not showing up for his patrols.

I couldn't help noticing the preponderance of fic in which poor Ezra is picked on by stick-up-his-ass Nathan. And I had to ask myself, wow, is it just my imagination or is this, like, kind of racist?

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 02:35:01 UTC 2 years ago

Which is even more annoying when you remember that Ezra is *canonically* racist (at least in the first episode).

[info]scrollgirl

2 years ago

[info]scrollgirl

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]scrollgirl

2 years ago

[info]cu_sith

2 years ago

[info]valiha

2 years ago

[info]amaresu

September 26 2009, 03:25:56 UTC 2 years ago

Here via Metafandom

This is so spot on. I loved whump!fic during my (clinical depression fueled) angst ridden teenage years. As I've gotten therapy, medication, and a more rounded look on life I've found whump!fic to be rather boring and more along the lines of character assassination.

Because that's what it is. There's no way to write an in character whump!fic. Either you're doing the whump!character a huge disservice or you're doing it to everyone else in the fic.

So, that's my 2 cents.

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 03:40:28 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Here via Metafandom

If nothing else, a physically whumped character is half-dead at the end of the fic -- it's hard to feel like Rodney's had a happy ending when he's in a coma, or be happy for Ezra when he has multiple bullet holes, broken bones, and massive head trauma (especially since M7 is set in the Old West, where some people died of particularly nasty splinters).

[info]misstopia

September 26 2009, 03:30:58 UTC 2 years ago

Here via metafandom; I'm not familiar with the fandom myself, but I agree that yeah it's about a teenage fantasy. A lot of fandom is, to be fair. People like to nurse their wounds, fantasy lives are often for that.

For me, "You'll all be sorry" stopped being appealing sometime in early teenagehood, when you begin to realize that, oh, just everybody is so terribly misunderstood *bites fist angstily*

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 03:41:14 UTC 2 years ago

One thing about growing up -- you learn that it sucks to be a human. Any human:)

[info]misstopia

2 years ago

[info]mecurtin

September 26 2009, 03:59:53 UTC 2 years ago

As several people have said, in SGA fandom "whump" is used for the hurt element in h/c, not for the "And Then You'll Be Sorry!" fics, of which SGA's post-Trinity division has a sterling collection. I'm pretty sure there's one story where Rodney has a broken arm and no-one cares and he splints it one his own with *pencils*.

However, I *do* see why these stories are so popular: because they are *candy*. They are the concentrated essence of a particular feeling. Yes, it's a feeling that is quintessentially 15 years old, but we all still have that 15-y.o. inside us, and sometimes you just want to get in touch with your angsty teenage self and *wallow*. And sometimes you just want to feel sorry for yourself, but in a distanced way. And sometimes you want to have a good cry.

[info]undomielregina

September 26 2009, 04:02:53 UTC 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure there's one story where Rodney has a broken arm and no-one cares and he splints it one his own with *pencils*.

The idea of this made me snicker.

[info]scrollgirl

2 years ago

[info]whumpdotcom

September 26 2009, 19:49:51 UTC 2 years ago

I've had the nickname 'whump' since 1989, completely unrelated to doing terrible things to Daniel.

When did 'whump' become a term of art in fandom?

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 19:51:59 UTC 2 years ago

Judging from the comments, I'm guessing it's been well over a decade (or maybe two).

Anonymous

September 26 2009, 20:58:11 UTC 2 years ago

This is why there is only one misunderstood Ezra fic that I've really liked (I've just finished rereading it again) .

KSL's Ezra/Vin fic _Learning to Improvise_ which is a seven very-long-chapters getting together and coming out fic (with bonus shoot-um-outs, broken limbs and other such shenanigans).

While there is mistrust and misjudgement (on Ezra's side as well as well), it's presented in a reasonable fashion.

For example while we see how Nathan's mistrust leads him to believe that Ezra must be planning a con on very little evidence, Nathan isn't reluctant to treat Ezra when he's hurt. There is no concealing wounds, no failure to keep track of people, no miserable ostracization

The only major problem I can see is that the story on her website needs a warning [discussion of pre-fic child abuse including sexual exploitation].

While I think it's written fairly well with the character scarred but not broken, it does have fairly serious ramifications in fic (PTSD not love-life).

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 21:02:31 UTC 2 years ago

Learning to Improvise has actually been recced on our sister comm [info]epic_recs and has proven to be quite popular:)

[info]enderwiggin24

September 26 2009, 21:19:19 UTC 2 years ago

I am pretty sure, several previous commenters already must have said this, but lets be honest, all of us were at some point angsty teenagers or tweens with those fantasies.
lucky us, 99% of us grew up, and went through the "school of life", and not just did finish highschool ;D

ten years ago, being 20, and just discovered fandom, that kind of trope/theme in fics did attract me too, but really, now ?!?!
being a 30 year old woman, going through all kinds of things in private life and professional job wise, I just can look back, and smile, and think, "and they too, their phase of self pity will pass".

there *is* an audience for that, and they too, will grow up ;D

[info]jane_elliot

September 26 2009, 21:22:12 UTC 2 years ago

Heck, I look back at some of my own recs and wonder just what I was thinking:)

[info]kattahj

September 27 2009, 06:33:02 UTC 2 years ago

Heh, I'd never thought of "whump" from this perspective before (for me it's more "yay people getting hurt!" because I'm sick puppy), but I can completely see its prevalence now that you mention it. And not just in h/c - the first fic that came to mind was an Angel story in which Wesley is turned into a child, and all the others go, "Oh, what an adorable, tragically unfortunate child! And here we thought Wesley was being a dick! We totally understand all his issues now!" I actually enjoyed the story quite a lot, but it was certainly an id-pleaser more than anything else. :-)

[info]jane_elliot

September 27 2009, 17:00:51 UTC 2 years ago

Hee! I love the idea of that story, even if Wesley pretty much *is* a dick:)

[info]kattahj

2 years ago

[info]esther_a

2 years ago

[info]kattahj

2 years ago

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